#18 :: The Weeks When Decades Happen, with Alex Hunt - Behaviorally

Perspective and teamwork are two things that can really help you in a crisis. Alex Hunt, CEO of Behaviorally, shares how he navigated a double surprise during 2020 and reminds us how companies face events like this every seven years. This engaging interview walks you through his thought process for handling this or any crisis.

Behaviorally https://www.behaviorally.com/

Recorded on 04.08.21

TRANSCRIPT

Laurie Pillow: So you guys, welcome back to the 100 CEO Project podcast. Today, we're excited to be talking with Alex Hunt. He's the CEO of Behaviorally. It's a company that helps brands make better marketing decisions by defining and diagnosing the digital and physical behaviors that drive shopper growth. The secret sauce, if you will, is in unique behavior, their unique behavioral framework, digital first approach and decades of experience. So Alex, it's super to have you and thanks for coming on. 

Alex Hunt: Thank you for having me very much. Appreciate it. And happy to be here. 

LP: I've read a lot about you. People recognize you as one of the foremost thought leaders in the industry of insights. You're a systems thinker. And so I'm wondering, were you that kid like in your neighborhood, who helped all the lemonade stands like orient geographically, so they'd receive the right traffic flow? Right? How did you get here? 

AH: Good, very, very good question. And the opposite, in fact. I mean, I've been in the insights industry my entire career, so almost 20 years. But I actually came into the industry completely by accident. I studied politics at university, and was intending to go to law school, but was done with study. So I thought, you know, I'll work for a year and then come back to law and be that afterwards. And I happened to come across a place on the graduate scheme at a company called Millward Brown, which is now part of Kantar in the UK. And you know what this looks quite interesting, so I'll apply. And I applied, got invited for an interview, and it was a two day interview, you know, for the graduate class and I remember the final thing that the final interviewer said to me on this on the second day was if we invite you back, will you promise that you know something about what we do? And I was walking on sort of thinking, I don't know whether that was a complete car crash, or maybe I'm coming back, I'm not sure. But anyway, I said, Yes, of course. Yeah, I'll know. And, the rest is history, really. I mean, I worked in the industry my entire career, both in the UK and the US. I spent a considerable amount of time in a large agency, Millward Brown, which became part of Kantar, or at that point, WPP. Worked then grew a smaller agency at the time called Braintree, so it's now System1 Group. And essentially opened their Chicago office, Los Angeles, ran the US business and then the global research business- that business we we really grew very, very quickly between 2009 and 2018, when I left and then joined PRS IN VIVO as the global CEO and now the CEO of Behaviorally. And Behaviorally is the successor to PRS IN VIVO, USA, we rebranded this year as of January 23. And so that's really how, you know how I arrived where I am.

LP: I think, first off, it's a fascinating industry. I wasn't at all aware of the intricacies and how much it can accomplish. But for those like me, who are not familiar with it can you recreate maybe a couple of working definitions before we move on.

AH: Yeah, again. Yeah, of course. I mean, the insights industry, you know, it has lots of different names, you could call it, market research, marketing research, you know, more and more traditionally, you know, in the future it's very much about data. But at its core, it's really just about understanding why human beings make the decisions that they do. And leveraging that information of course, to the advantage of the person or the brand or the company that is commissioning that work. It's really as simple as that and, you know, often I think gets a bad rap. You know, perceived as a somewhat pedestrian industry, you know, you watch shows, like Mad Men is an example where the advertisers are interesting and sexy and cool. And the market researcher is dull and boring and statistically driven. But personally, I've always found it fascinating. I don't think there's anything more interesting than helping you know your client, whoever that client may be and understand why people are making the choices that they do. I mean, that is just fascinating work. And that's really what the industry is all about, that it's cool. And, you know, in a commercial sense, of course, you know, everyone's familiar with polling, you understand what voters are going to do, but in a commercial sense, which is really where pay really works. It's about understanding why shoppers are making the choices that they are, and how do we help our clients? And we work with nearly all of the big consumer packaged goods brands in how do we help them optimize behaviors at shelf and that's both the digital shelf and the physical shelf.

6:13  

Andrea Spirov: So, so Alexander, you, when we first spoke, you alluded to some unexpected on top of unexpected, and you spoke earlier about the merger? So can you sort of share how 2020 played out for your company, and what it was like to lead during such a turbulent time? 

AH: Yeah, absolutely, I can, you know, 2020, was probably the year that none of us were were expecting, you know, as we progressed, we were probably 15 months into a global transformation program, which, which, which was going very well, you know, and very, very successfully. You know, when COVID hit around March, you know, I'd refer to the coming, you know, several months as really phase one. You know, in Phase One of COVID, we saw 50% of our revenue, shut off overnight, and that portion of our revenue was the revenue that we do in person. So work where we're talking to consumers in person on behalf of clients, and as listeners will fully understand, you know, that became much, much, much more difficult during COVID. In phase two, you know, we certainly had some choices ahead of us as a company, we have a change in ownership of the business, and you have to get ready to prepare to relaunch our business. And so, there were really two phases to 2022, it was the year of a of a double surprise, in essence, you know, if I think about, you know, what does that mean, I think, in phase one, really a commercial leadership challenge and a real necessity to pivot our business even more quickly towards a digital model, which we did incredibly successfully.

And, you know, the business recovered very, very well. And I think managed to do so also looking after all of our staff members, and making sure that we continue to deliver for the clients but that really took a lot of bold, difficult decision making in order to get us back. I think chapter two, you know, was living in a lot of uncertainty. And, you know, for both yourself as a leader, but also for the organization as well, managing it through a period of uncertainty on top of a period of challenging COVID was like that double surprise, really, that double challenge and, and really bad. That's how I think about 2020 as far as at least Behaviorally is concerned.

9:11  

AS: But yet, you've made it so you're now standing at a complete reorganization, we're heading into somewhat of a recovery hopefully and so what are some of the things that got you through so much of that?

AH: Yeah, I think that, um, you know, the important pieces that get you through, you know, any challenge in a business are really about perspective and teamwork. Perspective, what I mean by that is, you will go through challenges in, in business, I mean, most businesses have about a seven year life cycle and they have to refresh and renew every seven years. Those that don't tend to wind up in trouble, ultimately, because markets change, buyers change. And so keeping COVID in, in the perspective of Look, this is part of the cycle is just really, really important. And I think both for yourself as a person leading the organization, but for the wider organization. And, of course, COVID is a once in a career time shock in many respects. I mean, you literally have to go back to war time to find an equivalent impact on GDP, to find an equivalent pace of change, at least in the Western world, in terms of the way that people are behaving, of course, that's the business that we're in. But constantly keeping that perspective. And reminding the organization of that perspective, that the businesses do change, things change, it's part of the natural cycle. And we have to make decisions to change in line with that broader context. And explaining that constantly. and always to staff members to clients you know, and reminding yourself of it, I think is just really, really important as you as you navigate through, through what is a difficult, difficult period, in any business. 

The second place where I where I think, you know, what's the key is just around teamwork. You know, as any leader will know, you're only as good as your team you have around you. It's why you bring in, frankly, people who are smarter than you and better than you at least the functional task that they've been asked to do, but also a great many other things as well. And I think any crisis is a wonderful thing for a leadership team. It really knits a leadership team together really, really closely, and, and tests the governance of an organization. And I think that was probably one of the most rewarding parts of 2020 was seeing how the team came together, seeing how we withstood a crisis and came out together, stronger on the other side. But then also looking after the wider team. And, and constantly communicating with them about what's happening, what's going on. And I remember one of our managing directors, actually, in the UK, said to me that, you know, during the height of the pandemic, he was meeting with the team every morning, in fact, his entire team, and often didn't have anything to say, but sometimes just hopping on a Teams meeting and saying there is nothing to say, and there is no news is, is much better than saying nothing at all. And I think you know that teamwork, but also constant communication, particularly when you're not physically together with the other thing that was just central to surpassing all of the obstacles in our way really.

13:15

LP: Not to drill down on the pandemic too much, because we're coming out of it and tons of lessons learned. But because of what you do it is very interesting to kind of go back into that context for a second. So Behaviorally, your company, applies behavioral insights to shopper driven growth, excuse me, or to shopper growth. And we're wondering, with respect to the pandemic, what are some of the changes that you or perhaps better yet, your clients saw? And maybe are still seeing right now with respect to shopper behavior? And what could other retailers be aware of in this new environment?

AH: The big one won't come as a surprise to anybody. And it's obviously the growth in online shopping versus the traditional brick and mortar retail environment. And, you know, the growth in those channels has been exponential. It was growing fast before COVID. And COVID, essentially brought a decade of change within weeks. We don't think it's going back. I mean, that's the big, big learning. You know, I was talking to my 88 year old father, last week, and during the pandemic, they started doing click and collect, because obviously, you know, as a senior, very worried about the, about contracting the virus and, you know, before COVID, I'm not even sure that he would have known what click and collect was. And you know, if even, you know, people in that segment, shifting to online shopping, even in the grocery category, which is predominantly where many of our clients work, you know, it's just a tremendous amount of change accelerated over, over a matter of weeks really. And for a lot of our clients, there's tremendous ramifications of that. We just take two lines of business, but we work in one’s defining potential at shelf, you know, the definition of the shelf, this has changed, you know, is the packaging, which is really where we specialize, is defining the success of that packaging, going to be the same digital shelf as it was a physical shelf?

In the other line of business we have, which is really about diagnosing shopper behavior along that path to purchase. Well, you know, once it was very linear, right now, it's unequivocally omni channel, and the bit that's probably going the quickest, there's that gray bit in the middle, you know, people moving between those two worlds, almost simultaneously. And, you know, we've really seen a growth in that business, you know, because for most of our customers, all of the foundational work that they've done in the year or two leading up to COVID, needs redoing, you know, all of those consumer behaviors, those foundational learnings, are no longer applicable. And it's really one reason why, as we rebranded as Behaviorally we built it around that future digital shopping experience. And if you actually look at our logo, you know, the top of the B and the bottom, and there's no overlapping gray area in the middle. It's really designed to bring to light that part of the journey that is little understood the way that shoppers move between the physical and the digital world.

16:58

AS: It also seems, I'm curious, is it easier now to measure because the shifts have been so rapid. You know, I have some grocery experience. And if you look at not only that some smaller brands lose shelf space, so a lot more shelf space, at least here in the US I heard, was given to the larger players. But also a lot of people made a lot of diet and lifestyle changes during this time. I know my family went completely plant-based. So how do you measure? I think brand for one thing has become more important than ever, because you revert to brands that you've heard about before the pandemic, you may not have the same assortment on shelf and you go try to find them online. How has this rapid change in not only consumer behavior, but the marketing industry? Has that made it easier or harder? Plus you're implementing new tools. If most of your research was in-person before? What does that look like? 

AH: No, absolutely. I wouldn't necessarily frame it as easier or harder. I mean, one of the ways we think about consumer behavior is really applying behavioral science. And, you know, our behavioral model is really quite straightforward. You know, we look at the benefits of any particular experience, product for the consumer. And also we look at the barriers. So what are the points of friction that prevent them making that choice. And having a really clear framework for how consumers make a decision is incredibly useful and helpful, and in fact, essential as you then start to apply it to new contexts. And that's really what the pandemic has brought. A lot of the same contrarian elements of human behavior still stand, doesn't matter the environment. It's just that their context is different than the way that they're triggered to make those contrarian choices changes. And I think the big thing for us is making sure you know, as we've rebranded really around that digital first strategy, you know, you put behavioral science and all of that heritage understanding behavior at the core, and that's really what Behaviorally is about. So, you know, certainly for us, you know, has it become more difficult? No, I don't think so. I think it's actually just become more interesting. But that's a trend that's been going for, for many, many, many years. You know, it would be dull if they weren't constantly new challenges. You know, I go back to working in the advertising corner of the market earlier in my career, you know, we used to do 30 second TV spots. Whenever we got a 60 or a 15 second spot, it would be well, does anyone have the learnings on the 60? And how does that differ from the 30? And, you know, now, it's not just you know, 15/30/60 second TV spots, you know, you've got just a plethora of different channels in which brands are communicating with consumers. And so, markets change and they've become more more complex. But I think having that consistent foundation in terms of how you think about consumer behavior, those truths, often they don't change. And keeping that in mind as the anchor point is probably what's helped us the most.

20:16  

LP: To tag on to what you just said a bit, Alex, in a blog post that you wrote, I believe it was in January of this year. You gave some statistics that completely baffled me, respective the impact of the pandemic on retail, and just a few that I pulled from your blog: Albertsons, US grocery retailer revealed 276% increase in digital sales in the 16 weeks ended in June, by June 20th. Kroger reported a 92% increase in their online sales. Instacart, the online grocery service announced a 500% increase in order volume. You also noted in that article that Asia has been leading the adoption of e-commerce and omni channel retail, since basically the SARS outbreak, which what has been maybe 15 years. So what made it such that these companies at least here in the US that so many really weren't prepared to move in this direction?

AH: You know, I think it goes to I read a quote from Lenin, actually, it's a bizarre person to get a quote from but, you know, he says,”There's decades when nothing happens. And then there's weeks when decades happen.” And, you know, that's sort of the leftfield Black Swan event that COVID I think was in in many, many, many respects. You know, it really wasn't part of anybody's contingency planning. And I remember at the height of the pandemic, you know, there was a lot of press around the airline industry. And, you know, they obviously took government funds to help sustain themselves through the crisis. And, of course, there was the, the sort of usual clamor - doesn't really matter what side of the aisle you sit on, I'm not venturing opinion on any of that - the usual clamor around Well, you know, why wasn't this part of their contingency planning? You know, how could they possibly not have seen such a, such a, such an event, and, you know, in what universe, you would have expected airlines to plan for a literally, you know, 95% reduction in their passenger numbers for an unknown period of time, is, is is sort of something that you, you ask, and, you know, nobody really planned for this eventuality, and planned for it well. Now, I do think that these events have the habit of coming. And the usual cycle is every seven years or so. And if you go back, you know, the last shock to the system was probably the financial crisis. And before that, you know, 911, you know, about seven years, eight years before that. So we really should be better at anticipating Black Swan events, but I think that's part of the nature of them, is that they're very, very hard to predict. And I don't think that anybody really expected it. Those who have really done well, in the pandemic, I think, are companies, though, that were pursuing digital strategies, and strategies that were certainly online based, anyway, then, I mean, that was very much what we were doing. So while COVID certainly accelerated our journey, we were on the path already, frankly. And you know, that's why we've come out of it really quite successfully, I think the companies but weren't, it's more of a challenge because they have to do the planning and do the thinking. And then bring their organizations with them. And it's very hard to pivot in the middle of a crisis. So for me, you know, it's not surprising, really, that people weren't prepared. It was one of those shock events. But those who have done well, were the ones who were probably pursuing the right, the right path in the first place.

24:45

LP: I'm curious. As I mentioned, at the top of the episode, you are considered one of the thought leaders in the insights industry. So you help brands and companies define, diagnose and drive shopper growth, and I'm kind of here curious. What helps inform how you envision and predict future changes?

AH: That's a great question. Um, you know, I think for anybody who's leading a business, probably one of the most important skills is, it's just listening. And you learn, by listening to anybody and everybody from all different walks of life than, you know, I learn more from our team, frankly, then than anywhere else, they're the team that are out there, talking to our customers day in, day out that they're, you know, invaluable sources of information. And really listening to that, then listening hard actively listening to it, is probably one of the primary sources of where you find that information. Similarly, it doesn't hurt to go out and talk to our customers, yourself. And, you know, you're not always able to do it as often as you might like, but certainly, you know, I made a rule at the beginning of the year that I was going to talk to a customer every week, because I think it's really, really important to do so. And sticking to that, and listening again, to what your customers are saying, is, is probably the second place, you know, the third place.

You know, we're in such a privileged position within our business, because we're talking to consumers all the time, you know, that's what our customers are paying us to do on their behalf. And there's nothing quite like flicking through some of our work and actually hearing from the consumers, what they're playing back in response to the sorts of things our clients are trying to learn. And, and so I think just listening to all sorts of sources is really, really important.

27:02

AS: So final question. And it's also the final question of the season. So systems thinking and behavioral science requires serious structure and brain power. We're curious, what do you do to recharge? 

AH: What do I do to recharge? Well, I, I'm, well, I have a six year old, so she keeps me very, very occupied. But, you know, for me, I think like, you know, two sort of typical question around work life, work life balance, and, you know, I often answer it or just think about it in terms of that's a construct, that that's false. If you really love what you do, it never really feels like work or at least if you're passionate about it. And you know, for me, I'm just very passionate about what we do at Behaviorally, and therefore, in essence, there's, there's no real need to recharge, because, you know, you feel like you, you know, you enjoy every day, and frankly, if you don't, life's much too short, and it's time to do time to do something else. So, I think it's a combination of those two things, you know, there's nothing quite like a six year old that will distract you and force you to think about something else. Because, you know, someone like negotiating with a child or negotiating with a terrorist, you know, they're very demanding of your attention, and full attention at all times. So that's a good, good, a good way but also, you know, just making sure that you love what you do and you're passionate about it. And if you are, you get a natural energy really from that.

AS: I have a six year old too. Hard negotiators. So Alex, where can our guests find you out there on the internet? Or how do you like to stay in touch? 

AH: Yeah, sure. I'm alexhunt84 at Twitter. And, you know, Alex.hunt@behaviorally.com or visit the site at behaviorally.com.

LP: Hey guys, we hope you've enjoyed today's episode. And if you do, please share it with your friends and colleagues who also have to navigate this leadership stuff. As you can see, this project is about to be a mini masterclass in every episode, best part. It's free. So if you like it, please do us a favor and take a screenshot, share it on social with the hashtag 100 CEO, that's 100 CEO. That way we can say thanks and share it in our stories. And finally, if you've got some insights you'd like to share and you're a CEO, we'd love to hear from you. You can find us at 100 CEO project comm or on LinkedIn at the 100 CEO project. Until next time, keep leading by example.

This concludes Season 1 of the 100 CEO Project Podcast

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Hosted by: Laurie Pillow, Andrea Spirov

Writing and research: Laurie Pillow, Andrea Spirov

Edited by: Laurie Pillow

Produced by: Laurie Pillow, Andrea Spirov